Training Camps...

Here is a two-part article on training camps; I cut and pasted it here so the formatting is a little off. j

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Preparing for a Training Camp

A couple months ago I wrote an article about incorporating a training camp into your next (which is now) season. Late February and most of March is high time for triathlon and cycling camps in the Northern Hemisphere. This probably results from the assumption that most people have trained moderately for a couple months (mostly indoors for many) and are looking for a camp to really get their cycling rolling. This is a great idea and I encourage people to do this if time permits.

Ok, so you have sat on the trainer and ran in the snow for a couple months and now the camp is coming up. Chances are the camp will have a) significantly more cycling volume than you have done this season (perhaps 15-20 hours more than a usual winter week) and b) it will likely have more intensity. Both of these things are perfectly ok so long as you can ease back into your normal routine when you go home. Gordo and Alan have a great phrase: “Judge the success of a training camp by how quickly you bounce back.”

Here are some things you can do before, and during, the camp to make it a success:

1) You came here to ride. At most camps, cycling might make up 75% or more of the entire training volume (by hours). This might strike you are being heavily unbalanced, but remember why you are here: because you cannot ride like this at home; either because of time, weather, or both. It is ok to slow down on your runs and go easier on your swims this week.

2) Moderate your run training, but don’t cut it out. I like to keep the normal frequency of running by doing easy runs first thing in the morning or by doing quick, steady runs off the bike (15 minutes is great). I also suggest cutting your typical long run by 25-50% in duration to avoid excessive soreness.

3) Maintain your swim frequency and, potentially, your normal volume. Most triathletes regularly swim 2-3x per week and going below that amount is not something I would suggest. However, I do advocate the extra use of paddles and pull buoy during these camps if you do not have a swim background. Many athletes will find themselves too tired to generate enough stress for their swimming muscles and I think this is a good supplement during a cycling-emphasized training camp. Your swimming coach might be shaking their head at me right now, but I’m ok with that.

4) Prepare the office for your departure. One of the greatest benefits of a training camp is being able to isolate where your stress is coming from. Stress comes at you from every which way while you are at home, but hopefully at these camps it can come almost entirely from your workouts. Make your office well aware of your upcoming leave so that no one finds this news unexpectedly. Being able to immerse yourself entirely at the camp is essential to its success. Training like a pro is the easy part; recovering like one is the real challenge.

5) Learn something about yourself. I tell this to athletes on the first night of our training camps. This might mean something different to everyone that reads or hears this and that is perfectly alright. I believe that every training camp provides us with various opportunities to discover something new about ourselves. Don’t pass up on that when it prevents itself.

In my next article I will address how you can affectively recover from a training camp. I have made more mistakes in this area than any other and I want you to avoid similar pitfalls.

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Absorbing a Training Camp

In my last article I touched on how to approach an early season training camp (with a cycling emphasis). Now I would like to address what to do when the camp ends and you head home. Chances are; this is the area where you are most likely to make a mistake.

I would say that the average triathlete that attends a training camp typically trains about 8-12 hours/week in the early season; and if anything, it might be even less when averaged out. On the flipside, I would say the average training camp last 5-7 days and has a median training day length of 5 hours. Given this, you are looking at a 200% increase of volume for some athletes. Often times, achieving this increase in training is not that difficult to execute when you take away the normal daily (and weekly) occurrences of the working-athlete. However, when they/you get home, the challenges begin to present themselves again.

On the one hand, you want to allow yourself enough recovery from the camp before returning to normal training. On the other hand, the whole purpose of these camps is to get a boost in your fitness to use for further training and racing. You want enough recovery to absorb the camp, but you don’t want to fall off the wagon and negate the gains of the camp.

How much recovery should be taken? I think it depends on how big the camp was in relation to your average training load (for that time of year, not the whole season). A good rule of thumb is:

1) 1 day of recovery for every two training camp days (including travel days) if the camp was no more than a 50% increase of typical volume. 2) 1-1.5 days of recovery for two training camp days (including travel days) if the camp was 50-100% of your normal training load. 3) Equal amount of recovery days to training camps (including travel days) if the camp was over a 100% increase from your normal training volume.

To put this in practical terms: If the training camp ended Saturday, you traveled home Sunday and began recovery on Monday, you would either a) train easily until the weekend b) train easily for the entire week or c)you train easily until the middle of the following week.

If you trained an average of 10 hours per week, attended a 25-30 hour training camp, took a 5-7 hour recovery week and then managed to return to normal training, you would be looking at a very nice boost over the course of a two-week period. If you are taking 2, 3 or even more weeks to recover, then you are beginning to negate the benefits of the camp and you would have been better off stringing together 4-5 of your ‘normal’ training weeks instead.

The most successful training camps you do are the ones that allow you to return to normal as quickly as possible; only now your normal training loop is getting done a little faster than before. If you arrive home and don’t unpack your bike for a week then you might keep that in mind for future camps. Don’t cash in all your chips before the season even starts.

Post Wanaka Update

I've had a lot (read:about 5) people ask what I will be doing this season aside from Wanaka and Hawai'i. At this point I honestly don't know. From August to January I toed the line at 4 IMs (DNFing the first and then finishing 6th, 11th, 2nd); all within 20 weeks of one another. I certainly learned a lot in that time frame, but it left me a little tired as I sit here thinking about it. At the moment I'm focused on getting ready for the Endurance Corner Tucson Camp that takes place from March 7-14th. We have been fortunate enough to run a successful camp for the last two years and right now I'm trying to keep that rolling. Once I get back I can start to think about what (and where) I want to race. I would like to do a long course race in the summer, but not sure of which one just yet.

In the meantime, I'll have a 1-2 more articles rolling out in the next couple weeks. If you have a topic you would like me to cover please email me through the contact page. I'm always looking for ideas.

cheers,

justin

Latest Article

Latest article from www.xtri.com ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

“Avoiding early season setbacks” is a common theme on triathlon, cycling, running, etc. publications/websites at this time of year. While it is only the last week in January, some of you might still be receiving this advice a little too late. Additionally, many people follow all the rules and do all the right things only to find themselves in the exact same place.

Ok, so here you are. You made all these fantastic plans for this upcoming season. You were going to eat right, train hard, recover better and, most importantly, go faster. Then all of a sudden you get sick, you get injured, you get overworked, or just generally get off track. At any rate, your idea of a perfect season has slowly drifted away. If, and when, this occurs, you should do your best to keep the following in mind:

1. The perfect season does not exist. When you sat down to write out your season plans and goals you might have forgotten that no season in the past has gone perfectly according to plan. No matter how well we plan or how hard we try, we will never be granted a perfect season simply because life does not work in a vacuum. “Perfection” is ultimately subjected to our reactions to life’s curve balls. Always doing our best, in every given scenario, is all we can ask ourselves.

2. Stay in the moment. If you find yourself recovering from an illness, injury, or some other life circumstance, it is important to stay in the moment. Do not get caught up in missed opportunities and be wary of trying to ‘force fitness’ with constant ‘make-up sessions.’ Instead, consider what got you here in the first place and make the appropriate decisions that will help you get back on top of your game.

3. Success, in racing or otherwise, happens in spite of bad things occurring. “Bad things occurring” mean this: people who succeed don’t have better ‘luck’ than you or me. This is somewhat of a continuation of my first point, but I think it deserves some extra emphasis. Every time I have let my ‘bad luck’ get the best of me I have lost the race before the gun even went off. My bad attitude would not even allow me the chance of having any level of success. Do not let the same thing happen to you; as I said before: do your best no matter what.

When life challenges you, just smile and get back out there. As trite as it may sound, we cannot control what happens to us; we can only control our reaction(s).

Challenge Wanaka 2010

This past weekend I had the pleasure of competing in the 4th annual Challenge Wanaka Event on the south island of New Zealand. I raced to a 4th place finish last year and I returned this year with hopes of improving on that performance. I did my preps for the 2009 edition in Australia, but this year I opted to stay at home in Boulder for my training. I had some interesting challenges with the weather, but I still felt good about my conditioning in the final lead up.

 

Wanaka had been experiencing some cold weather in the weeks before the race and when I showed up the lake was less than 13 degrees Celsius. We had nice race-week weather which likely moved the temperature up a couple degrees, but it was still one of the coldest swims I have done. Last year we had warmer water, but fairly rough conditions. This year the swim was dead flat and fairly uneventful for me. I ended up pulling the second pack of the swimmers around the course and I exited the water side-by-side with eventual winner, Richard Ussher (NZ).

 

After a mediocre T1 (but way better than T1 last year) I was off on the bike. A couple of riders, including Ussher, pulled away from me quickly during the opening 40K of the bike (which is very hilly); I tried to close the gap, but they proved to be too strong on this section of the course.  As we headed out of town to tackle the meat of the bike course I was concerned that a group of three had formed up the road and I was left in no-man’s land. This was not how I had hoped for the first couple hours of the race to unfold.

 

Nevertheless, I felt good and I settled into a nice rhythm about two minutes off the group. I forgot how rough NZ chip roads can be, but I had plenty of alone time to take notice. The bike is a one-loop course with one short out-and-back at the 160K mark. As a result, I had to wait quite some time to see how my position on the bike was developing. At this point I could see that Ussher had ridden off the front, but 2nd and 3rd place were within about three minutes.

 

I was not in the position I had hoped for coming off the bike (4th), but I looked forward to seeing what I could do on the run. I settled into a nice rhythm after the first few Ks and around the 6K mark I heard that 3rd place was only 30 seconds up the road. This motivated me as I have never finished 3rd in an international race and within about ten minutes I had taken over the 3rd place position.

 

The first loop of the run continued fairly uneventfully and around the 17K mark I could see that 2nd place still had over 3 minutes on me. As we returned to town and headed back out for the second loop I got a split of about 2:40 to second place. The gap to second had not come down for 21K, but all of a sudden it dropped about 30 seconds.

 

I continued to tick along and I wasn’t sure whether or not anything had changed, but around the 28K mark I could actually see second place running on the trails. After exiting the trail section (10K to go) it looked as though the gap was now only a handful of seconds and by the top of Gunn Road (8K to go) I took over 2nd place.

 

In 2008, when I was racing Ironman Canada, I managed to run into 4th place with about 5 miles to go, only to be passed by the former 4th place runner in the last mile (and subsequently finished 5th). As a result of this, when I moved into 2nd place on Saturday I started running scared and I never slowed down until I crossed that finish line. Only then was I content that I wouldn’t be caught. This fear is likely what helped me post the fastest run split of the day as well as a new marathon PR.

 

Last year and I came off the bike in 2nd and finished 4th. This year the exact opposite occurred. Perhaps I can find a way to ride like last year and run like this year in the future, but for now I am quite pleased with how things turned out. Wanaka has been good to me for the past two years and I really enjoy racing there. The race is like no other. If you are looking for an honest course in a beautiful place, head to Wanaka next January.

 

cheers,

 

justin

Headed to Wanaka tomorrow

Tomorrow afternoon I will start my 30 hour journey to the south island of NZ. My brother and sister-in-law will be joining in LA so at least I'll have someone to talk to for most of the trip. Its freezing in Boulder at the moment, but the training for this race has gone fairly well considering the time of the year. I spent a little over two weeks in Tucson before Christmas and that seemed to give me a nice boost of fitness after returning to Colorado 2+ weeks ago.

I'm excited that its 2010 and I'm glad I have the opportunity to start things off on a positive note next week. I really enjoyed racing in Wanaka a year ago and I expect the same this time, but I wouldn't mind if the rain and cold could hold off while we race. Nevertheless, training in Boulder in Dec+Jan makes most conditions seems reasonable.

I'm not sure I will be checking in here before the race, but you can follow updates on twitter:

www.twitter.com/justindaerr

-jd

Afterthoughts of recent article

I recently wrote an article called "The Extra Gear" on xtri (posted below this). After finishing I had an afterthought that applies nicely. I was standing on deck at the Elks Pool in Boulder with Wolfgang Dietrich. He was coaching the club team there and they were in the midst of a workout that consisted of some best-effort distance repeats. Wolfgang and I were chatting and he pointed out that the times the fast lane was swimming was far, far below their racing potential, but he continued by stating that "he didn't care." His reason, he explained, was that they all show up on race day.

Something happens when they step on the blocks and they become their potential. As long as that continued to happen, Wolfgang had little concern with having them hit faster times in training.

This was a very insightful move by a coach. This coach knows how to get performance from his athletes when it actually matters. Its a nice balance of art and sport.

jd

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Article:

The Extra Gear

Have you ever had a training partner that you can train side by side with, but seems to pull away from you every time you both race? I bet you do.

How about the flipside: Do you know someone who is always dropping you in training, but finishes well behind you on race day? I bet you do.

A few months ago I was reading one of Bobby McGee’s books and he mentioned how crucial it was for Long Course (tri)athletes to hold back during their long training; particularly as they approach season best fitness before their key race. Many years ago, I remember reading an article (or interview) with Peter Reid in which Peter recalled training with Mike Pigg. On one particular day things were going along nicely in training and Peter shifted to the biggest gear: the 11. Mike turned to him and said “save the 11 for race day.” That statement stuck with Peter and, in turn, Peter’s recollection of the moment has stuck with me (Thanks).

It is easy to understand why we, as athletes, want to get into that last gear. If we are convinced that hard work produces results, then harder work must produce even better ones. However, chances are that the results you want on race day were left in those best effort sessions conducted day after day in your training. A much better scenario is to conduct your training in a manner where you consistently find yourself holding back.

In a recent conversation, B. McGee mentioned that the power behind consistently holding back shows itself on full force on race day. Why? You will have something that no one else has. You have the extra gear available to use when you so desire. Everyone else has exposed their capabilities in training; while you toe the line ready to discover yours.

When I was 14 years old I got my first job: carrying skis for tourists at Crested Butte Mountain Resort. My father told me that the first 250 dollars I earned had to be put into a savings account which he would then match to bring me to 500 dollars. From then on I could spend as much as I wanted, but the 500 had to remain in the account. 500.00 had become the new zero. This seemed highly irrational at the time; especially when you consider how long it took me to get to 250 when I was only working after school one day a week (and the minimum wage was 4.25/hour).

It took a while, but my father’s point finally kicked in and I still apply this minimum balance principle to this day. I might never spend that 500 dollars, but I still could; that’s the point.

When you arrive on race day, you can have the psychological edge of having that last piece of your fitness that has yet to be used. When everyone else is cashed out, you will still have somewhere to go.

Have a great 2010 everyone,

Justin

Ed McDevitt Race Report

My friend (and great athlete), Ed McDevitt, had an awesome race in IMAZ this year. He was forced to not start Kona because of a sinus infection, but pulled it together six weeks later and laid down a big PR. You can read his race report here.

Thoughts cont.

Over two years ago I was staying in Billings, Montana on my way to Penticton, BC. The motel I was staying in had a notepad that had a title of "Your Thoughts." Since I had nothing better to do for next 18 hours I decided to keep it and write down my random thoughts while driving across a large chunk of America. Today I was out on my bike for a few hours and I was thinking about that day and about a blog post that Will Frishkorn wrote a couple years ago that listed his thoughts during a race. The following is what I recall thinking today while riding up and down Lefthand Canyon a couple times.

*Its warmer than I thought it would be; I'm going ride up the canyon

*Its windy in this canyon

*That car passed me awfully close and had a bumper sticker asking me "Am I driving cautiously?"

*I wonder if people consciously drive differently once they have that sticker on their car or after someone calls.

*Does anyone ever call?

*That flag is OUT. Its windy.

*Ok, school bus going over the center line of a blind corner. I'm going to just hang out on the far side of the road for a while.

*Hey there's Marek.

*I think Marek's top tube is a bit long.

*I wonder if I could tell him about his Top Tube if I preficed it with "can I offer some constructive criticsim?"

*When someone says that to me I can't help but initially think "Sure #@!$#@!%*&er. Go ahead."

*Ok, back up the canyon.

*There's Marek again.

*I think he and I are the only people in this canyon.

*I should remember that ice patch when I descend back down.

*You know who I have respect for? Cows and horses that live in Gunnison County. I can remember driving to the pool when it 36 degrees below zero and those guys were hanging out, no worries.

*Ok, at the top time to descend. Remember the ice.

*Its kind of cold.

*ice

*Actually its quite cold

*ice

*I'm freezing.

*Sand

*If Gordo wants to complain about the heat in Noosa, he best not do it to me.

*I don't think I should climb this high again. I can't feel my fingers.

*Ok, starting to warm up.

*I never beat Marilyn once in the sprint at the bottom of this canyon.

*But she's not here today.

*Victory.

-jd

Football Season

Well, last night marked the end of the Texas A&M regular season. I personally think the 6-6 record is good when one considers where the team was last year and how many true freshman started this year. I think Jesse Palmer said something (last night) along the lines of "80% of TAMU production this season (sacks, rushing yards, passing yards, etc.) came from freshman." I have no idea of the accuracy of that statement, but I get the idea: the team is young. The low points of the season came against Arkansas, Kansas State, and Oklahoma. TAMU was an absolute disaster in these games (particularly against KSU and OU), but I get that. At least, I understand how someone can have days when they don't even recognize themselves. I've certainly experienced it in my own racing. I've toed the line on some days in the past where anyone with a pulse could have kicked my ass. However, I do believe that over time I have consolidated these moments to one or two times a year (Boise 70.3 would take the cake this year). If they could reduce this to 1-2x next year, and less the following year, then I think they are right on track for being the team they want to be. (Especially when the team is lined with Juniors and Seniors that have been playing TOGETHER for 2-3 consecutive seasons).

The middle ground for TAMU was beating Utah State by 8; losing a close game to OSU at home, and losing an OT game to CU on the road. I suppose on paper it would seem that the CU game was the worst, but CU is an interesting ball club. I get to see them play more than any team, since I live in Boulder, and I honestly cannot understand why they have the record that they have (but that's a whole other story).

The high points of the season came with the other five wins (obviously) and clearly the victory over Texas Tech in Lubbock was the highest of all. It certainly saved Kines and Sherman from a lot of severe scrutiny (they still get plenty). If you had swapped that Tech victory with a loss againt KSU or CU I don't think folks would be as confident in Sherman and co. He needed one stand-out victory and that was it.

Now its time to wait for bowl selection. It looks like it might be the Texas Bowl versus Navy or the Independence Bowl against Tenn or Georgia. Hopefully they can close out the season with a victory to make 2009 a winning season.

Thanks for the Season TAMU. Keep it rolling in 2010.

jd

IMFL 2009

I always find it difficult to write about races that really did not go as I would have preferred. I sit around and try to think of writing a race report in a way that doesn't sound like I'm making excuses, but it never works out. Ultimately I will read my draft and toss it aside. Having said that, I will try to explain the race as I remember it without really trying to read (too much) into why things did not work out. The Swim: In the 24 hours before the race the east winds had picked up and we had a nice chop/surf on race morning. I prefer nice, flat water as I tend to have a lower swim turnover than some of my other colleagues. I had a less-than-ideal start, but eventually I felt better and started to swim with a nice rhythm. Unfortunately the group I was originally with gapped me when we turned east into the swells on the first loop and I ended up exiting the water about one minute behind them.

The Bike: I felt good for nearly the entire bike (its impossible to feel perfect the whole way, but this is probably as good as it gets for me in the pro race). There were times that were more heated than others, but I never felt weak, bonked, wrecked, etc. It was one of my better rides and after exiting the water in the 16th place, I came off the bike in 6th with 5th only a minute or so ahead of me. I also set a new 180K PR which was 4:32 (fastest of the day was 4:28 which was done by the eventual winner).

The Run: I was optimistic about how the day was going as I set out on the run. I know this run course very well and its easy for me to break it up mentally. I moved into fifth place around the 2nd mile of the run and kept rolling along at a pace of 6:30-35/mile. I set out to hold better than 2:54 marathon pace and everything was working out nicely. I was under the impression that places 1-4 were further up the road, but by mile 4 I had moved into 4th and I could see 3rd place was shortly up the road.

Things were going very well and I remember consciously thinking "be calm." I just wanted to keep rolling along at my pace as everything seemed to be coming together nicely. I was within 20 seconds of 3rd place when eventual 3rd place finisher, Massimo Cigana, caught me and ran by. No worries. He caught 3rd place quickly and they began to pull away together.

Even though they were pulling away, it was not because I was slowing down. I kept seeing 6:30/mile splits and as their gap grew I felt their was a good chance they would blow each other up. At any rate, I was still on pace to have a great race (for me) regardless of how they performed. However, just as I was reaching the turnaround I started to feel really lousy and by the end of Mile 14 I had gone from running to slowly jogging. I assumed I was experiencing some sort of bonk so I pounded sugar at the next aid station. These episodes are not common for me, but like most athletes, I have bonked while racing.

I kept this up for a couple more aid stations, but then it became clear that this was something more than blood sugar; I was just straight up slowing down. Regardless of having a good day until then, it was clear I was going to have to do everything I could to try and consolidate any spot in the money I was still in. However, soon enough I was pushed out of the top 8 and the last 7-8 miles of the day was really just some personal time as I tried to get to the finish line.

I finished the day in 8:48 and 11th place.

That is basically everything as I remember it. I can speculate about why I slowed down, but I cannot come to any definitive conclusion other than the undisputed one: just wasn't my day.

2009 has been all over the place for me and I am ready to put all my lessons of this season to use in 2010.

The season starts early next year: Challenge Wanaka (NZ) in January. See you all then,

 

jd

Ironman Florida

I will be traveling for the better part of the day to Panama City Beach, Florida. I am racing Ironman Florida on Saturday morning @ 6:45 CST. You can follow live web updates during the race on www.ironman.com. You can also follow me on twitter (though not actually during the race):

www.twitter.com/justindaerr

See you in fl,

j

Couple weeks to go.

37 degrees, rain/snow. That is the current scenario here in Boulder. The last two fall seasons in Boulder were certainly more ideal for training, but I'm not surprised this fall is not. Boulder did not experience its typical summer. Normally BoCO gets a serious warm spell in July and August, but it was temperate this year. I was not complaining at the time, but its led to a cooler-than-usual fall. The average high temperature for Oct is in the 60s, but I bet there have only been 5 days or so that got that warm this month. Working around the weather has definitely forced some different training ideas to come about. I'm not much for riding the trainer, but I have had little choice in the matter. I have come to embrace the trainer, but I still have a hard time being on it for more than 75-90 minuntes at a time. I'm better off doing multiple sessions in a day or doing bike/run/bike/run/bike/run combos which have been introduced in the last few weeks as well.

At any rate, I am almost within ten days of the race so the weather is beginning to become less relevant. I'm looking forward to getting a little Florida sunshine in 13 days.

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Texas A&M actually beat Texas Tech IN Lubbock last night. Its the first time that has happened since 1993 and its only the second win in the last 11 years regardless of locale. The team bounced back nicely after what seemed to be one of the worst losses in tamu history last week. Its hard to know what team you are going to get in the future weeks.: The team that got absolutely slaughtered in Manhattan, Kansas or the team that got it together in Lubbock last night.

At any rate, it was nice to see them win.

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I never mentioned it, but I went to Chicago two weekends ago to watch the marathon. A friend of mine was racing the event and I made the trip to see him race. The runners had really nice marathon weather; quite cool with no wind. It might have been a little better if it were 5-10 degrees warmer, but overall I think the conditions were rather ideal. The men's course record was broken by 2 seconds and the winner brought home an additional 100K bonus check for doing so.

I only got to see the elite runners in the first few Ks. I stood below the 4K banner and watched them go through in 11:38; averaging just under 2:55/K. Not too shabby.

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The next couple weeks will be the normal routine as I wrap the finishing touches for IMFL. I travel there 72 hours before the race (Wednesday) and will follow up the race with trip to Jackson, Mississippi to have dinner with the local triathlon club there. We'll be discussing a wide range of topics related to triathlon as well as having an extensive Q+A that can last as long as the folks wish it to. If you live in Jackson and are interested in attending then drop me a note through the contact tab at the top of the page.

cheers,

j

Chicago Bound

In the spirit of constant travel, I'm off to Chicago early this afternoon. I will not be able to follow Kona online all day long which is a bit disappointing, but I'm glad to be able to leave 17 degrees and snow for 40 degrees and wind. My friend is racing the Chicago Marathon tomorrow morning and I am going along to make sure he gets out everything he put into this event. I should be able to get a nice perspective of the city riding a mtn bike around the course on Sunday. Then its back to Boulder early on Monday to get in my final few weeks of training before Ironman Florida. Hopefully the snow will be gone when I get back, but I've already adjusted to completing more and more training indoors.

Good luck to everyone racing today. I wish I was with you; next year I will be.

cheers,

j

Ironman Florida

I have entered Ironman Florida and will be racing again in five weeks time. I was not expecting to be racing this late in the season, but some early season hiccups have made me decide to continue to race before 2009 comes to an end. I have raced IMFL four times (2003,05,06,07) so it feels like a hometown race for me in some respects. I look forward to returning there one more time. j